Recently with all the discussing about eternal life, hell, etc. The topic of annihilationism has come up. Annihilationists believe that hell is not eternal torment, but there’s just a period of time where someone suffers in hell – then they cease to exist. Although this sounds great to the carnal dictates of the human mind it is not consistent with God’s revelation or God’s justice. We know this from scripture. For more information on the doctrine of hell, see my sermon here or listen here. In the process of all of this discussion I had some conversations with some leaders and deacons-in-training at our church regarding the doctrine of hell and annihilationism. One young lady, who is a deacon-in-training, read a couple books on the subject and talked to several pastors, missionaries, and theologians. Below is the correspondence between her and a man who runs a mission organization in China, which she used to work for. She shared his answers with me, and thought they were brilliant, so I wanted to share his answers with you. Her words are in italics – his responses are in bold.
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Her Introduction to the situation: My pursuit on the study of hell has been an intense one for me. What began as a simple desire to learn more took me to a whole new place in my understanding of God's infinite power. God truly is glorified by all of His creation and by everything that happens in it. When I first studied Anniahalism I was driven by both emotional struggles and intellectual questions. I was very close to being considered a professing annihilationist when God began a series of events to open up my mind to His ways. The turning point for me was the evenings of March 11th when Japan got hit with an earthquake and then the tsunami. God gave me a very restless night of sleep that night and woke me up early on the 12th to continue watching the news on this. The Lord spoke to my heart that morning saying that this was not a "natural disaster" but rather His Supernatural Power. I was immediately humbled by His power and found myself glorifying Him in a situation that the world would view as a reason to question God's sovereignty. This isn't something I say to many people and don't get me wrong, my heart goes out to those suffering from the tsunami. But my soul brings glory to God because I know that nothing happens without his allowing it to. It was through this change in my heart as I looked at the crisis in Japan differently that God allowed me to understand that He too is glorified in his creation of Hell. I don't know how to fully explain it, but I have an absolute peace that its true. A couple weeks ago Jason Diaz preached about sanctification and the wonderful wooden duck. He talked about how the person carving the duck would have to chip away anything that doesn't look like a duck. God gave me this understanding of a kind of parallel to how He uses Hell. He must sanctify his creation and in doing so, He takes away everything that no longer looks like Him (hence the duck). So by meditating on sanctification and how God truly glorified in all situations regardless of how our mortal human eyes view them, I began to open up to how God is also glorified in His creation of Hell. I understand that Hell is a very difficult topic for many of us to really think about. But I challenge us all to do just that. I challenge us all to think about it the way God thinks about Hell not the way the World does. I pray that we all can have eyes to see Hell the way God see's it.
Here's a snippet of their exchange
Her words: I'm calvinist which is kinda my hangup on eternal conscious torment. If I was Armenian then I could swallow it much easier, but being a Calvinist then I'm stuck saying that some people were actually created for Hell and never had a shot at any other option. However I'm also fully aware that I don't understand God's ways, and my claim isn't backed by Scripture. I too don't at all feel like this is a hill to die on. Its more of an open hand issue for me but I am pretty intrigued by it. Edward Fudge also talks about the Matthew 25:46 verse ("Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"). He says that no longer existing or even being in the presence of God in even a common grace environment is in fact eternal punishment, but that it doesn't have to be a conscious punishment. But to no longer exist is an eternal sentence (punishment).
His response: Yeah, he has to dance around this verse because it’s problematic for his position. But if you let it just say what it says, it’s kind of hard to come out the other end with annihilation. At least in my thinking. I don’t like reading a bunch of ideas into a verse to make a theological point. That’s not good scholarship.
Her Words: He talks a lot about the fire being eternal, smoke being eternal, punishment being eternal (permanent) but that none of those have to do with a conscious torment.. There were a couple examples that the NT uses to describe Hell as being like those that were destroyed from the flood. He mentioned that no one questions what the word "destroyed" means when talking about objects, but we change that meaning when talking about people to it becoming a eternal torment instead of just destroyed (ceasing to exist).
His Response: Right, but he’s arguing for annihilation from a bunch of peripheral ideas. He’s not arguing for annihilation straight from a text that says the damned are annihilated. If that concept (annihilation) wasn’t in the minds of the early readers, and I can’t think of any ancient philosophical position that would have held that view, then don’t you think there would be something more clear on the issue? Could the early reader’s have cleverly sorted through all the little nuances of this metaphor and that one and figure out, “Hey, the damned are annihilated!”? And where could you find a metaphor on earth with a concept of eternal conscious suffering? All the metaphors Jesus used were earthbound so naturally temporal in nature. They are metaphors, and so by nature not exact. To insist on annihilation is to push the metaphors a little harder than Jesus intended.
Her Words: So the Scriptures don't use the word annihilated but they do seem to express destruction which to me may be the same.
His Response: But again, Jesus is trying to put “the fear of God” into people through examples that show how terribly awful hell will be. He used the most awful metaphors he could find, but again, they are earth bound and so they speak a lot to the issue of total and complete loss and destruction. Basically, the metaphors can work in favor of either view. One has to ask, what was the prevailing understanding of the nature of eternal damnation in that day? If the metaphors don’t directly challenge the prevailing notion, then that notion is supported by the metaphor. The theologians that are arguing for annihilation are doing so mostly because of the modern mind’s logical problem with it, not from sound Biblical exegesis.
Her Words: Oh, and he mentions that it wasn't until Plato/Socrates that the idea of the soul being eternal even came about and it wasn't a scriptural thing. Do you know much about when we started having this philosophy?
His Response: Basically the Old Testament is where the idea of an eternal existence of the soul after death comes from. The OT has the concept of Sheol, which was a place where all the dead went, both good and bad. But it wasn’t paradise exactly. It was thought of as a kind of no-man’s land. Remember Saul (I think it was), who called up the spirit of Samuel (I think) from the dead. Samuel was thought to be in Sheol. “Eternal life” for the OT Jew, was found in the continued existence of the family’s land and the continued existence of the family name. That’s why it’s such a disaster for Naomi when she loses her husband and sons. She was cursed by God because her “eternal life” (land and family name) ended.
The ideas of heaven and eternal life are more fleshed out in the New Testament because Jesus spoke often about them. But yes, the Greeks also had a concept of a place where the souls of the dead went after death. There were various places with various aspects of enjoyment or suffering, depending on the person’s life. You had to get past a three headed dog named Cerberus and then buy passage on a ferry across the River Styx. But there was a place over there for the souls of the dead. But Jesus didn’t buy into any of that. Also, probably the concept of the devils living in hell and torturing souls forever with pitchforks, along with the idea of various torture chambers and levels of hell are a mixture of some of those classical Greek and Roman notions, along with a lot of imagination from the Middle Ages. Dante’s Inferno did a lot to contribute to the modern and erroneous ideas about what hell will be like.
But all that said, there wasn’t really a concept of the damned being annihilated and the saved living on in paradise forever. If that is in fact the truth, then one would think that the Scriptures would have clearly corrected the erroneous ideas of the time. In fact, they don’t. So I let the idea stand that the damned exist eternally. I just jettison all the baggage. To me, hell is a place where God is not. And where God is not, how can there be anything good? That’s why people there gnash their teeth and weep. That’s why Jesus likened it to an eternal fire. But beyond that, we don’t know much about it. Thank God!
Her Words: My other thought/confusion is on using the word "eternal" to describe life especially since we consider God to be eternal (no beginning and no end). So unless the english language just doesn't have the proper vocabulary which is very possible, i'm confused how our souls are eternal when clearly we are created beings and did in fact have a beginning. Any thoughts on that? If you're open to it, i'd really appreciate dialoguing about this with you!
His Response: Well, here’s some dictionary definitions:
1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life. 2. perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternalchatter.
3. enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4. Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; notsubject to change.
The second and the third ones would lend themselves to the notion of having a finite beginning but not an end. I think that’s probably how Jesus was using it.
